Rick Warren

[Coolwater]

Good grief! I get it that Obama wants to bring people together by inviting Rick Warren, a far right minister to bless his inauguration. That might help sweeten some far righters who see it as the conciliatory gesture it is meant to be.

I get it that some ministers might defend a president they would otherwise bad mouth because they have blessed him; indeed, there is research to show that people will support what they have publicly committed to. This one won't. It seems to me that this one is a first-rate hypocrite who is enjoying his 15 minutes of fame by pretending to love the people he blatantly despises. If you read his nonverbals, he is clearly having a blast saying things he knows we know he doesn't believe, but he thinks we can't say so because we're being polite about Obama's choice.

Does anyone know any good of this man? Am I being too harsh?



If there is a traditional hell, then there must be a hot cave in it, the walls and ceiling of which are dripping with rotting, melted rubber cement, and it is full of hypocritical ministers struggling in their own slime.

[Sekhmet]

I cant honestly say any good about him..Talk about a hypocrit..one minute bashing gays the next saying he loves them. I really have no use for organized religion nor the vain egotistical men who run them. I say our founding fathers were right, keep religion out of politics.
As for Hell, after shopping this week, I have decided Hell is a giant Wal Mart on its busiest days, from the parking lot, to the check out lines that would be never ending, slow and full of grouchy people. And when you get to your turn the registers go offline and wheeeee it starts all over..:p
Sorry I despise shopping on normal days.

[Scarpetta]

Have you read free republic on the subject lately? They are a VERY Conservative site, but as this individual stated there: If Obama can neutralize the opposition by fragmenting us, this will be a frustrating eight years.

If all things are perception then neutralizing Warren, not embracing him makes his message of divisiveness less.

How about Warren debating say Rev. Eric Lee a courageous leader on marriage equality in the faith community and in the African American community. Representing the SCLC, founded by the Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr., Rev. Lee expressed his strong opposition to Prop 8 in October by taking a stand with the Courage Campaign against the Mormon Church's heavy involvement in the Prop 8 campaign.

All things considered shedding light on the dark recesses of some evangelists is a good thing.

[Sam]

:rolleyes: I am so out of the loop on this one. But I will read up on it as time permits.
But from a personal stand point. I refer to myself as spiritual and not religious mostly to separate myself from the massive corruption and hypocracies of the modern day churches.
But to me the whole process of having a minister bless an inauguration is hypocritical! When it is after all a govt. function and it is the govt. that has taken it out of schools and govt. buildings..etc.
To me it is a double standard. Our govt. was based on religion. So if you take it out of some places in govt. using it in other parts of govt. functions is hypocritical.
Personally I don't think it should have been removed from anywhere. Just because our govt. was founded partially on religion doesn't mean we don't respect others who have different religious or non-religious views. And it shouldn't mean we have to change it either.
Viva La Difference! We can all learn from one anothers different thoughts and views.;)

[Scarpetta]

:rolleyes: I am so out of the loop on this one. But I will read up on it as time permits.
But from a personal stand point. I refer to myself as spiritual and not religious mostly to separate myself from the massive corruption and hypocracies of the modern day churches.
But to me the whole process of having a minister bless an inauguration is hypocritical! When it is after all a govt. function and it is the govt. that has taken it out of schools and govt. buildings..etc.
To me it is a double standard. Our govt. was based on religion. So if you take it out of some places in govt. using it in other parts of govt. functions is hypocritical.
Personally I don't think it should have been removed from anywhere. Just because our govt. was founded partially on religion doesn't mean we don't respect others who have different religious or non-religious views. And it shouldn't mean we have to change it either.
Viva La Difference! We can all learn from one anothers different thoughts and views.;)

I agree with the last paragraph, but our government was formed to avoid the problems religion caused in Europe. Our GOVERNMENT was established as a secular government with the 1st Amendment securing liberty to the people to practice, or not to practice religion in their personal lives without government interference. That subtle implication also means NO religion will be considered a National religion. You can be any denomination you want or not, but government is NOT.

No one took religion out of our government. What government representatives bring to the government bargaining table might include their religious beliefs....or not, but you can't take something out of the US Constitution that was never there, and that would be religion.

Founding Fathers were of many persuasions, mostly Universalists and Diests, but what they were not was stupid, and the centuries of political strife , some caused by religion was what they adamently wished to avoid when the Constitution was written.

There is a reason why 'WE THE PEOPLE' was written in large script as the first three words of our Constitution. The government is ALL OF US, and all of us includes many, many different beliefs collectively and as indivduals.

An invocation, a benediction at the Inauguration has been the choice of Presidents. Pastor Warren however is rather controversial, especially within the LGBT community. A civil rights pastor will give the official benediction, and for the first time representatives of the LGBT community will be represented in the Inaugural Parade.

[waltersv]

I tend to agree with you, COCO. I feel that the government is slowly, but surely, evaporating many of our rights, all in the name of political correctness.
And perhaps religion was not specifically mentioned in the U.S. Constitution, but it is included on every bit of our currency, not to mention the "Pledge of Allegiance". I have to wonder how long that will be so, before someone decides we're violating their rights by using that currency, or by saying such a Pledge. I don't think I care much who is involved in the inauguration, as long as the right to have religious representation there is not taken away from us.
I still can't believe we've gotten to the point in this country where we have to push one for English! I'm sure my ancestors, who by the way, had to learn English to live here just like everybody else, are turning in their graves over that. But that's a topic for another day! I know that many of our ancestors fled countries to evade religious persecution, so to be able to say the Pledge of Allegiance "under God" is an honor I'll fight to keep, thank you very much. I do believe that religion was an important concept to the planners of our nation, and they couldn't have handled it any better. I am always amazed at the absolute brilliance of the composers of the Declaration of Independence - how lucky we are. But the way our government is running these days, I don't know that I can say the same. Government seems to be running our lives - you couldn't build an outhouse around here, if you wanted to, without a gazillion permits and fees. I guess we have to somehow justify all the politicians hard at work. LOL.
OK, enough, I'm tired and need to get off my soapbox. I've had a rough day and I'm venting! Good night, all.

[Sam]

;) Point well taken Scarpetta. I wasn't aware of the religious aspects which the govt. were trying to avoid. I was taught that we broke away from England because of taxes and because the laws that applied to England did not work when applied in a new land being settled in.
But what about the fact that our money says "In God We Trust"? Isn't that a contradiction in terms? And does our pledge of allegiance not say: "One Nation Under GOD" ?
And our Judicial system which HAS taken religion out of schools and govt. offices.....Do they not have you raise your right hand (while at one time placing your left hand on a Bible) and ask you to "Swear to tell the truth."
To me these things are hypocritical.
Don't know if you've seen this either. But you might find it interesting.
http://onlineathens.com/stories/091305/new_20050913050.shtml

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/17/muslim-woman-jailed-over-_n_151858.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/17/muslim-woman-jailed-over-_n_151858.html

[Littledevil]

I need to catch up on the latest news myself and his topic, been very busy, as I am sure everyone has been. Coco has a point, though. This country was founded on Freedom from England. Freedom to practice what ever religion we wanted, freedom to say what we want, and freedom from those heavy taxes.

I feel it is very hipocritical that America was founded on these things, yet we have taken God out of many things just to be politacally correct. I grew up with a moment of silence everyday to pray and the pledge of allegence. For the most part we still have our freedom of speech but get chastized when we do use it. We still pay heavy taxes and we are trillions of dollars in debt.

If Obama wants to have Rick Warren bless the inaugeration so be it and who cares. I certainly don't care if he has him bless it.

[Scarpetta]

Our History and many of our people have believed in a Deity but have practiced MANY RELIGIONS. We do not have a State Religion. We have many, sects numbering in the thousands.

As for the coins, the motto 'In God We Trust' has been on most of the coins since 1864 and in 1956 it became our National Motto.

As for the allegiance it wasn't until 1954 when
"Under God" was added.

As for religion in PUBLIC SCHOOLS, there is NO law that prevents a student from silently praying to their God. None. If organized prayer is what you seek then one can send ones child to a Religious sponsored school. Many do, and pay for that themselves.

I believe a great deal of this paranoia is motivated by some religious groups that seek to impose THEIR beliefs on all Americans and whose motivation is to exclude other Religions. I believe they are not being totally honest regarding their actual agenda. That is my opinion.

The 1st Amendment is important, it is what helps to define us as a Free Nation.

The Muslim woman and her headscarf. Religion clashes with security. What is your feeling regarding this?

Some courts, depending on the Judge have rules regarding head covering and I believe it is strictly security motivated.

Some Jewish men wear a yamika, but I can't say I have read news stories where they were asked to remove it.

I still feel we live in one of the greatest nations in the world and it is made great by the diversity of its people, including the thousands of religious sects that many of our people embrace.

Homogenizing Americans to follow one belief would fall in the theocracy category where rule of the state would be by its priests with divine authority. I wouldn't want to live there.

Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, and all the rest of the many greetings that reflect our diverse religious, and some not religious heritage. Long may it live and prosper.

[Littledevil]

Well Said. I wouldn't want to live in a country where there was no freedom.

[Sam]

Waltersv I agree with you on many points but specifically our national language. I think those who come to this country should learn to speak our English. I think it is always good for us to learn other languages but it should be our personal choice and not something that is imposed on us by our govt.

Scarpetta you asked my thoughts about the head scarf incident.....
If I were visiting a predominantly Muslim country and was told by a govt. employee that I had to wear a headscarf to enter a govt. building there...I would gladly put one on. So I feel she should have removed it.
As you stated there are MANY different religions here. But every country has it's own set of laws and we must abide by them.
She wasn't being discriminated against because of her religion. NO ONE is allowed to wear head coverings here reguardless of their religious beliefs.
It is simply considered bad manners and disrespectful to do so. Men are asked to remove their hats and caps when entering a courthouse and so are women. I was in a courthouse last winter with my daughter for a child support hearing with her daughter's biological father. He was asked to remove his baseball cap. I was asked to remove a winter hat that I was wearing. It is also customary not to wear a hat inside or at the dinner table here.
Also she wasn't the person who HAD to be there. She was there for moral support for someone else. So she could have removed it and stayed or kept it on and waited outside. But she was actually arrested for cursing at the officer as she was leaving. AND THAT IS A DEFINITE NO-NO HERE! Cursing in public and at an officer of the law is a very old law that is still on the books here and even though they don't always enforce it...it's there...somewhere..
.
I would like to know how other countries would have handled that type of situation though.

I simply believe in equality for ALL. I don't believe in catering to any special group or religion or race. I believe the same set of rules for one should apply to all.
I don't belong to any specific religion or sect. The main reason being that I don't think any of them have the corner market on our creator. There are too many things that I disagree with in every religion I have studied.
Just as I am neither a Democrat or a Republican. Because I don't believe you have to be to the right OR the left. I believe that in most instances in life there is room for compromise and a way to meet in the middle.
I am glad that I live in a country though that we can have these types of open discussions so that we can learn more and criticize the things we don't like and try to change them without fear of repraisal.
OK getting off my soap box now.

[Coolwater]

The thing to remember that religion sounds peachy until it is someone else's religion that is getting taught and preached. What if your kids were to go to school in a largely Islamic neighborhood? Would you want verses from the Koran read aloud at the start of each school day? How about if your kids were to go to school in a Mormon community? Would you want the public schools to teach your kids to be good Mormons?

[Sam]

I agree with that Coolwater.
I think the laws for govt. should be kept separate from the laws of religion.
But sometimes (as in that situation) laws of religion clash with the laws of the country they are in. So does the law of one religion superceed the laws of that country?
My answer is NO. I don't think the laws should be changed to cater to certain religious beliefs. There are simply too many beliefs and new churches with new ones cropping up all the time.
When it comes to neighborhoods...most people choose the neighborhood while deciding where they want to live. So if someone moves there then they should be accepting of the majority. If they can't the they shouldn't move there.

[Littledevil]

Plus the difference is that child can choose not to participate in a pray session. I believe that is why, when I was in school, it was a moment of silence rather than a prayer read.

[Coolwater]

It's hard not to participate in a prayer session, LD, even an informal one. What if the football team has an informal prayer session before a game? Do you know what happens to non-participants? They're harassed, that's what. "Hey,...

No, I'm not going to repeat what some friends of mine have had to listen to. It offends me to recall it, let alone to type it out. :(

And Sam, I don't agree that moving to a neighborhood means you have to bow to the will and customs of the majority, although it helps to speak enough English to get by. One should be able to enjoy one's own customs and religions and rear one's children without too much interference, as long as there is no abuse or violation of law going on.

Oh, but here is a funny story: my friend Susan, who is Jewish, didn't put up a Christmas display the year she moved to Copperfield, a neighborhood in College Station,Texas. A deputation of the neighbors went to her and said, please wouldn't she decorate her house? There was an unofficial competition between their neighborhood and several others, and her neighbors wanted her to help them have the fanciest community around. Sue said, OK, she was Jewish, but she'd see what she could do.

Sue decorated her front window with the biggest, bluest fake menorah I've ever seen, all picked out in a lot of tiny bulbs. She put a large, pretty star of David on the door instead of a wreath, and electric candles in all the windows. The neighbors' reactions were mixed: some liked it a lot, others kind of stood there with their mouths hanging open, just horrified. Be careful what you ask for: you might get it! I think that Copperfield won, but no one fussed at her when she didn't put her decorations up the next year. ;)

[Sam]

Cool I didn't say they had to practice the same beliefs. They just have to be respectful of the fact that others in that neighborhood have a different belief than theirs.
I also think what your friend Susan did was well within her right. Because it was wrong of her neighbors to try to impose their religious beliefs on her and that is what they did!
Ball games around here still have a moment of silence before the games.
Cool I have never known of anyone around here being harrassed for being a non-participant in a formal or informal prayer session. Your friends should not have had to deal with such behavior. If I had been them I would have had to remark "That's REALLY Christian of You!" Then I would have moved away while telling my friends to watch out for lightening bolts! I guess the sarcastic smart *** comes out in me in those types of situations.

[Coolwater]

"That's REALLY Christian of You!" GOOD ONE! I had a friend, white, who used to say sarcastically, "That's mighty white of you."

I misunderstood about the neighborhood, Sam. Sorry.

Sue is a hoot. She moved to Christ Church, New Zealand, and didn't have the nerve to tell her mother in Montreal what the name of her new town was! She actually managed to keep it a secret until her mother died, by getting her mail at the University, which had a different address. :D

[Sam]

;) Not a prob on the neighborhood thing Cool.

They still use that "mighty white" saying here once in a while.

Bet her Mom knows the truth now.;) She probably knew all along and just played along with it. Us Mom's do that sometimes.:D

[renate]

Is this you Coco-sorry-just kind of recognized your name there and trying to
get used to seeing it :):)

Renate

[Sam]

;) Yes Renate. It is me ...the lunatic formerly known as Coco.

[Coolwater]

While we're on the subject, why DID you change your name? (Yep, I'm still nosy.)

[Sam]

:( My username was the name of my precious poodle Cool. She died on Christmas Day. To continue using it would be a constant painful reminder especially of her last few moments. It was a necessary step in my "moving on" process.

OK Moving on...Any thoughts about Obama's dinner with the former Presidents??
Although unprecidented.....I thought it showed how sincere and intelligent the man truly is! Gather together the good and/or bad and learn about any mistakes or successes you didn't already know. I like that he is reaching in all directions and leaving no stone unturned so that he can make well informed decisions. I also like that he is trying to unify not only the people of this country but the politicians too.

[Coolwater]

Oh, sweetie, I'm so sorry. Many hugs.

Obama is awesome. If he doesn't succeed, it won't be because he isn't doing things in a good way.

[Scarpetta]

Sorry about your pet friend Sam. I still use a phrase including a beloved pets name in many things I do. After a while it does bring a smile which he always did, so I consider it his legacy to us. Time will do that for you too.

As for Obama, those that continue to approach negatively these events that Obama clearly sees as inclusionary haven't grasped yet the depth of the man. I wish I could believe the current President Bush when at the Presidents meeting Bush stated that it was all of ther collective hopes that Obama would succeed. I truly hope he included himself in that Bush Sr., Clinton, Carter group. It behooves us all, citizens of US, and many Nations and their people that he does succeed. We are in unprecedented times that require unprecedented measures.

[Littledevil]

I have never heard of someone being harrassed for not participating in a moment of silence either. I am all for freedom of Religion and to practice your own culture and language too. I draw the line when someone wants to change the National Anthem into Spanish. I just feel there were so many immigrants that came to the country for a new start and they became US Citizens and everything that entails. They didn't forget or discard their heritage or where they came from but they learned the language and customs of how things are done here. I am not opposed to multi language either. It is good to have the ability to speak multiple languages. I still feel immigrants today should have enough English language to get by and not require everyone else to bend to their will or what they want.

Good one Sam!

[Sam]

Thanks Cool and Scarpetta. Staying busy helps and yes time will too.

LD I look at it this way...you wouldn't move to France and expect them to change theirs from French, you wouldn't move to Germany and expect them to change theirs from German......and the same goes for any other country.
So WHY?? should we change ours?? That goes for our National Anthem and our National Language. It isn't a matter of racism or hate. It's a matter of Pride for ones country.

[Scarpetta]

I believe immigrants who seriously look to be successful in the US understand that speaking English is important. There is no national movement to change to Spanish, but we don't need a law that makes 'English' the national language either. Those that think this are using that fear to manipulate once again.

[Sam]

I beg to differ with you on that last point Scarpetta.
In light of the statistics furnished by the US Census here:
http://www.cis.org/articles/2007/back1007.html
And statistics stated here:
http://www.prb.org/Articles/2006/HispanicsAccountforAlmostOneHalfofUSPopulationGrow th.aspx

I'd say those fears of losing our National Language are very real and well founded.

[Dragon_Farm_Queen]

Jan 22 here in the Nashville,TN area will be a history maker. Our mayor and city coucilmen have been at odds over wether to cease having all material and business conducted in multi-langauges or just do it it all in English. This has been a major issue for along time amongst not just the city officials but the entire state of Tennessee. So Nashville is holding a separate election and depending on the outcome of the voters, people will either have to speak English Only when not in their homes or among their own cultures or businesses will have to begin to print all brochures, and information and in multi-languages.

I for one am for the English Only law, that way it allows for standardization. I do feel bad for people that come over to our country and cannot speak english, but I also know that my ancestors came to this country and either learned to speak english after they arrived here or they learned it in the countries they came to. The only culture that has given us grief about this need for learning to speak english is the Spanish Mexicans who are in our state illegally. They have expressed no desire to learn English.

[Scarpetta]

The English only debate is a cultural one that many see as racist. Perhaps learning of why proponents would want such an end to diverstiy would change your mind.

It is not likely that such a law will ever pass. The last attempt made was by Sen. Jim Inhofe, R-Okla. Perhaps familiarizing yourself with his ideology would change your minds. Maybe, maybe not.

English language is not endangered in the US.

A slippery slope that could lead to social inequality. I would only hope that if you hold this fear that you study those who advocate it.

[Sam]

Scarpetta, my thoughts about this are based on my own experiences and the things I see around me. I don't know where you live or your experiences are so Please understand that I mean you NO disrespect. I have a very open mind about many things but I can not see how this could be racist. Please try to enlighten me and maybe my eyes can be open to a different view.
But there are movements occurring here by the Hispanic communities to change our language. Being taught Spanish is no longer a choice made by those who wish to expand their horizons. It is mandatory of our children to become bilingual. It is starting in all levels of education. Yes I would like to have my grandkids and kids know Spanish and other languages BUT I want it to be their choice and not forced upon them.
I see nothing wrong with being proud of one's heritage and respecting one's country.
It seems far more racists to require those who come from China, India, Pakistan...etc. to not only learn our language and know theirs but to also force them to learn Spanish. The Spanish language is equally important to the languages of their countries but not more important.
With every year that rolls by we lose more and more of the freedoms that have made this country so great. We have become a society so worried about being PC that one becomes afraid to speak.

[Dragon_Farm_Queen]

I too am not seeing this from a racist view point. I am far from being a racist, but what I do not like are the uneducated not willing to be educated. Not just those that come over here but everyone involved. I think that learning to speak another language is a great privilege but what I don't like is feeling like our nation cares more about the non-citizens and what the non-citizens wants and needs and less about we as American born people want or need.

I have seen numerous 6 o'clock newscasts where someone is killed by another motorist simply because the other motorist could read or comprehend the signs on the road. Here in Nashville the hispanic community is not a safe place for hispanics even, especially if they are here illegally because though the good ones as far as I know out number the bad ones, the bad ones are making a mark on the hispanic community and it's not a good mark. When you hear of shake downs from no-goods that would resemble a mafia type of atomosphere and others feel they cannot report it or do anything about it simply because they fear going to the law because they maybe can't speak any english and also they may get deported as well if it is found they are in our city illegally is a huge issue. There are lives being lost and fights that should not even be fights.

To me the idea of English first is not a racist movement but a movement to find a common ground for all involved. What they are proposing here in Nashville is that businesses other than health and safety organizations or organizations that are pertinent to the welfare of one's own being would have to provide translators to those that do not currently speak any english or do not speak it that well but other businesses and organizations that are not viewed as a life or death type of business could opt to not have to spend the $100,000 price it takes to obtain a translator not to mention the cost of printing out all information and alerts in several different languages. Our city is referred to at the "Athens" of the South. Not to mention that in return this would give those that do known the English language the ability to obtain employement as a teacher of the English language or as a translator.

[Scarpetta]

To me the idea of English first is not a racist movement but a movement to find a common ground for all involved. What they are proposing here in Nashville is that businesses other than health and safety organizations or organizations that are pertinent to the welfare of one's own being would have to provide translators to those that do not currently speak any english or do not speak it that well but other businesses and organizations that are not viewed as a life or death type of business could opt to not have to spend the $100,000 price it takes to obtain a translator not to mention the cost of printing out all information and alerts in several different languages. Our city is referred to at the "Athens" of the South. Not to mention that in return this would give those that do known the English language the ability to obtain employement as a teacher of the English language or as a translator.

'Business'? I'm extremely unclear as to what you mean. Private enterprise is being forced to obtain translators? Any legislation would apply to government . Government services and publications.

First Amendment right exists in a citizen's ability to receive essential information from government officials and to petition the government for redress of grievances. There is an Equal Protection Clause to address as well.

I respect your opinions as well. I would only warn to be careful what you ask for.

[Littledevil]

I live in Florida and no matter what business you call it's press 1 for English or press 2 for Spanish. Spanish is widely spoken through out the state not just in Miami. The English Language is the most predominatley used language around the world. However, Many immigrants, Mostly Spanish Speaking think that we should change to fit their needs and this is what I am against. I was born here and speak English as my first language. I just feel that if you want to join my country and be apart of it. Learn my language, Learn our culture, and our way of life. I am NOT saying forget your own, but learn ours. That is part of what being an American Citizen is all about. Yes we are very diversified and that is great. Plus I feel that this country is still one of the greatest countries in the world and I feel we as American's should only worry about whether this country is falling down is when Mexican's stop trying to come to this country. Thousands of immigrants cross the border everyday, legally and illegally. When they would rather stay in Mexico than come here, then I'll I will worry.

[Scarpetta]

Have you asked those Spanish speaking people if they consider it a distinct possibility that the US will switch to the Spanish language anytime soon? I don't believe any of them consider it a possibility. Those entities that conduct the polls and comprise the statistics all show that
while the number of minority language speakers is increasing, so is the rate of linguistic assimilation. All available evidence suggests that today's newcomers are learning English – and losing their native tongues – more rapidly than ever before. English was far more "threatened" in earlier times; yet it survived quite nicely without official status.

[Sam]

Nope Scarpetta I didn't need to ask that group. They were chanting and carrying signs that said so. So I kinda got the hint.

[Scarpetta]

Nope Scarpetta I didn't need to ask that group. They were chanting and carrying signs that said so. So I kinda got the hint.

You never have commented on the Bill of Rights Amendments I posted, or the Clause of the 14th Amendment referencing 'Equal Protection'.

The issue goes further than people excercising their right to chant and carry signs.

Census statistics and projections

Hispanic or Latino ethnicity: 14.8% or about 44.3 million:[29]
White alone: 52.4% or 23.2 million
Some other race alone: 41% or 18.2 million
Two or more races: 3.8% or 1.7 million
Black or African American alone: 1.4% or 0.62 million
American Indian or Alaska Native alone: 0.74% or 0.33 million
Asian alone: 0.34% or 0.15 million
Native Hawaiian or other Pacific Islander alone: 0.09% or 0.04 million

[edit] Projections
Population projections 2008 2050
Non-Hispanic whites 68% 46%
Hispanic 15 % 30%
African Americans 12% 15%
Asian American 5% 9%
A report in August 2008[32] from the U.S. Census Bureau projects that by 2042 non-Hispanic whites will no longer make up the majority of the population. This is a revision of earlier projections that this would occur in 2050. Today, non-Hispanic whites make up about 68% of the population. This is expected to fall to 46% in 2050. The report foresees the Hispanic population rising from 15% today to 30% by 2050. Today, African Americans make up 12% of the population, in 2050 they are projected to comprise 15%. Asian Americans make up 5% of the population and are expected to make up 9% in 2050. The U.S. has nearly 305 million people today, and is projected to reach 400 million by 2039 and 439 million in 2050.[33][34]

A report from the Pew Research Center in 2008 projects that by 2050, non-Hispanic whites will make up 47% of the population, down from 67% projected in 2005.[35] Non-Hispanic whites made up 85% of the population in 1960.[36] It foresees the Hispanic population rising from 14% in 2005 to 29% by 2050.[37] The proportion of Asian Americans would almost double by 2050. Overall, the population of the U.S. was due to rise from 296 million in 2005 to 438 million, with 82% of the increase due to immigrants.[38]

Of the nation's children in 2050, 62% are expected to have a minority ethnicity, up from 44% today. 39% are projected to be Hispanic (up from 22% in 2008), and 38% are to be single-race, non-Hispanic white (down from 56% in 2008).[39

Those stats were easily obtained on many websites.

The issue remains, it isn't an issue.

[Coolwater]

I believe Chinese is the most widely spoken language in the world, isn't it?

In any case, if the US becomes bilingual, we won't be any worse off than folks in Europe, whose kids often speak several languages. Well, look at AP: he speaks, what? six or seven languages? Hasn't hurt him any, has it?

Embrace the changes, y'all! Variety is GOOD! Anyway, all you really need to know is, "Donde el banyo, por favor?" Where is the bathroom, please? A friendly smile, lots of good will, and some gestures will do for the rest.

[Scarpetta]

I believe Chinese is the most widely spoken language in the world, isn't it?

In any case, if the US becomes bilingual, we won't be any worse off than folks in Europe, whose kids often speak several languages. Well, look at AP: he speaks, what? six or seven languages? Hasn't hurt him any, has it?

Embrace the changes, y'all! Variety is GOOD! Anyway, all you really need to know is, "Donde el banyo, por favor?" Where is the bathroom, please? A friendly smile, lots of good will, and some gestures will do for the rest.

Almost a billion people speak Chinese. If all of them can do it.....

Learning Chinese is made more complex as there are four different 'tones' to be learned.

If interested there are some common phrases here. Click on the more button to hear the phrase.


http://www.standardmandarin.com/chinesephrases

[Littledevil]

Statistics can be produced on just about everything. That doesn't mean that is the consensis of the entire population. Also statistics obtained from polls taken on the internet is limited. The web is a vast network of computers and information. That being said, one website with a poll on this topic, may have only had at most 1,000 people actually participate out of millions. I am not opposed to being bilingual. Speaking multiple languages is a great attribute. The issue is individuals joining the US and want us to conform to them.

Name a website and I will tell you the statistics for that site.

When I worked in Tampa, I would see protests all the time. From Gay marriage, to illegal immigrants wanting the same privaleges as US Citizens, to the Spanish Language. All this falls under the constitution for Freedom of Speech and such. There isn't anything wrong with protests. So statistics telling me that people don't want it kind of give me the hint as well. Whether or not it actually happens remains to be seen.

As well, The official language of China is Mandarin. The Chinese language does not consist of just four dialects but they are separate languages with different tones. Tones is very important on which dialect is spoken. Most people in Asian countries can speak multiple dialects but they speak their own version in the town, city they are currently residing in. The identification of the varieties of Chinese as "languages" or "dialects" is controversial. Spoken Chinese is distinguished by its high level of internal diversity, though all spoken varieties of Chinese are tonal and analytic. There are between seven and thirteen main regional groups of Chinese (depending on classification scheme), of which the most spoken, by far, is Mandarin (about 850 million), followed by Wu (90 million), Min (70 million) and Cantonese (70 million). Most of these groups are mutually unintelligible, though some, like Xiang and the Southwest Mandarin dialects, may share common terms and some degree of intelligibility. Chinese is classified as a macrolanguage with 13 sub-languages in ISO 639-3, though the identification of the varieties of Chinese as multiple "languages" or as "dialects" of a single language is a contentious issue.

Most widely used with Variations
Mandarin,
Wu
Min
Cantonese

[Scarpetta]

Statistics would be in reference to 'data'. Polls might be what you are speaking of Littledevil in reference to opinion. Polls can be rigged therefore the reputation of the pollster and history of previous polls would be a consideration in assessing the 'poll'.

Same for the statistics on data. 'Garbage in, garbage out'
statistics are usually met with scepticism by those whose position is not supported by the statistics. Makes it more important to understand the data, and again trusting, or not trusting those who are compiling it.

As for language Coolwater offered some good advice:

Embrace the changes, y'all! Variety is GOOD! Anyway, all you really need to know is, "Donde el banyo, por favor?" Where is the bathroom, please? A friendly smile, lots of good will, and some gestures will do for the rest.

As for in China and the bathroom request. Bring your own toilet paper. It is not provided!

[Littledevil]

That's exactly what I am saying about statistics and polls. You can't always trust them to be true. BTW coolwater, I laughed at that one. I have no problem embracing change, just not making Spanish a dominate language in the US. I guess if that does ever happen. I could always move!:rolleyes:

On bathrooms: When I was in Scotland a few years ago driving through the country, we had to stop so I could take a bathroom break. We hadn't stopped all morning and I could no longer hold my bladder. I ran into a grocery store and I must have spoken fast when I asked a clerk where the bathroom was, because he sent me to the produce isle by the mushrooms. I forgot to say where is the toilet rather than bathroom. :o

[Scarpetta]

You missed my point a bit Littledevil, but no biggie. Statistics are valueable for many things. Numbers are pusuasive things which makes them eligible for manipulation by unscrupulous people, but statistics of data is helpful to many things in life. We shouldn't dislike statistics for being statistics, dislike the people that manipulate the data and make those statistics questionable. Know your source, and always look elsewhere before you arrive at a conclusion. A good example is Global Warming. Those who continue to deny the large impact man has made continue to cite 'some scientists dispute it'. Upon closer examination those 'scientists' they cite don't have many credentials ON the topic or their interests lie in other areas and may have been provided with 'incentives in the form of payment' to dispute, which they don't always disclose. Most all the leading scientific organizations in our Nation and the Panel on Climate Change of the UN have declared that man-caused global warming is occurring rapidly and should be addressed in a timely manner. There is only one the American Association of Petroleum Geologists that are 'noncommittal'. Special interests can mully the statistics not clarify in these instances.

That was my point.

[Coolwater]

On bathrooms: When I was in Scotland a few years ago driving through the country, we had to stop so I could take a bathroom break. We hadn't stopped all morning and I could no longer hold my bladder. I ran into a grocery store and I must have spoken fast when I asked a clerk where the bathroom was, because he sent me to the produce isle by the mushrooms. I forgot to say where is the toilet rather than bathroom. :o

Or maybe you said, "commode?" I wonder what the clerk thought you were looking for? :D

Yes, it can be irritating to go to, say, Ybor City in Florida, and have the folks there expect you to speak Spanish, but over all, I think that Scarpetta is correct. People who speak Spanish don't expect the rest of the nation to speak it, just the folks in their neighborhoods. They would agree with what Sam was saying about how neighborhoods should reflect the customs and religion of the people who live there. I do think that shop keepers should reflect the language of the people who live there - if only because it is better for business!

By the way, one of the things to remember about Florida, is that the Cuban immigrants never expected to stay here, so why learn English? They thought that the Communist Revolution there would be defeated long before now, and they'd have returned to Cuba Libre. Now their children all speak English, and wouldn't go "home" to Cuba if you paid them. Sometimes the change of language takes a generation or two.

If you go to Ybor City, LD, you'll also need to be able to say, "Frijoles negros y arroz, por favor." Then your waiter will bring you a big soupy plate of black beans and rice. Mmm Mmm Mmm!!

[Littledevil]

Maybe he knew I was American and thought of playing a joke on me. Who knows. :p

I'm very familiar with Ybor City. I used to be a social butterfly there. Knew all the bouncers and frequented many of the clubs there. We would show up on our motorcycles on Saturday Nights. I found it amusing when guys would approach me realizing I drove my own mortorcycle rather than just being a biker bunny. The girls would head to the clubs while the guys hung out checking out all the women and showing off their bikes. Haven't been there in a few years, but don't miss it much. Well maybe the motorcyle part.

Did anyone notice that no one applauded when Rick Warren came out for the pray at the Ceremony today? Hubby thought he was a bid long winded.

[hcla]

just getting in on this topic....I'm blown away at all the "religous" tones in the Inarguation...though I'm a believer in Christ and God Almighty....I thought there was laws on seperation of church and state...and there is too much hypocricy...goverments call on the Lord when they think it will benefit them...then do away with HIM....when He's not needed....it's all ceromony...everyone of those goverment heads would turn their back on religion and God if it meant a buck or two...did anyone watch Armagaddon week on the history channel??? I'm not a bible thumper...but man is incapable of ruleing his or hers destiny....for those that don't believe in God....as I told my husband...who remarked that the bible was a bunch shit written by people with far fetched imagination.....you better hope theres a God, cause this world...the planet is sick.....and its getting worse.....theres simply no excuse for all the sufferings, and hideous things that happen all over. The enviroment alone will not be able to recover from all the damage done.

[Scarpetta]

What is wrong with ceremony hcla?

What you might have taken away from the 'ceremony' on the 20th of January was a Nation that transfers power at 12:00 noon (no matter how long that oath was delayed) . So sayeth the 20th Amendment. " The terms of the President and Vice-President shall end at noon on the twentieth day of January, and the terms of Senators and Representatives at noon on the third day of January, of the years in which such terms would have ended if this article had not been ratified; and the terms of their successors shall then begin."

What you also 'might' have taken away from the 'ceremony' was the call to the people by President Obama that the challenges of our national circumstances and world circumstances will require "hard work and honesty, courage and fair play, tolerance and curiosity, loyalty and patriotism......they have been the quiet force of progress thoughout our history. What is demanded then is a return to these truths. What is required of us now is a new era of responsibility-a recognition, on the part of every American, that we have duties to ourselves, our nation, and the world, duties that we do not grudgingly accept but rather seize gladly, firm in the knowlede that there is nothing so satisfying to the spirit, so defining of our character, than giving our all to a difficult task. This is the price and the promise of citizenship. This is the source of our confidence-the knowledge that God calls on us to shape an uncertain destiny."

I would unequivocally add that we have had a say in our destiny, and we will continue to have a say in our destiny, as long as we are a nation of responsible citizens.

Look at resilience and where we have been hcla rather than despair. We have always been a hopeful nation. We must remain so.


Some may postulate that it all will end one day. Proof of that is totally in the realm of speculation. Of course working toward a better planet for all inhabitants could be a good thing, don't you think?

[Littledevil]

HCLA has a point. High profile heads of state use God when its convienent. I did watch some of the episodes of Armagenden week. I found it very interesting, though there are stages in history where we have been on the brink. Far more so now than any other time, due to what we can do to each other now with bombs, viruses, and whatever else. I have o agree with my husband the prayer part was a little too long, but hey it was less than five minutes. Obama's speech I thought was a It's time to go to work speech. Not really a motivational speech.

[Scarpetta]

Do you think God felt used evoking his name? What would the vast segment of our Nation that consider themselves Religious have said if his (God's) name had not been mentioned? The President does consider himself a man of faith. He mentioned the importance of faith in his speech by saying: "We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus-and non-believers. We are shaped by every language and culture drawn from every end of this Earth; and because we have tasted the bitter swill of civil war and segretation, and emerged from that dark chapter stronger and more united, we cannot help but believe that the old hatreds shall someday pass; that the lines of tribe shall soon dissolve; that as the world grows smaller, our common humanity shall reveal itself; and that America must play its role in ushering in a new erra of peace.

To the Muslim world, we seek a new way forward, based on mutual interest and mutual respect. To those leaders around the globe who seek to sow conflict, or blame their society's ills on the West-know that your people will judge you on what you can build, not what you destroy."

Because our Nation recognizes religion and faith as an important part of individual citizens lives, it is a far cry from establishing one or the other as a National Religion which would be against that 'Wall of church and state.'

[Coolwater]

hcla, I agree that most of the pols are religious hypocrites, and for me, personally, I'd like to get religion out of civil ceremonies for quite a lot of reasons. Moreover, I think one of the preachers in't a believer: I'm thinking that Obama is far more of a believer than Warren, but I could be wrong.

It seems to me, however, that if even a hypocritical minister manages to raise the hearts of real believers, then some good has been done. We do need all the help we can get!


I did find Obama's speech to be motivational, by the way. Not just "let's get to work," but also a warning not to expect overnight changes.

[Scarpetta]

To me the idea of English first is not a racist movement but a movement to find a common ground for all involved. What they are proposing here in Nashville is that businesses other than health and safety organizations or organizations that are pertinent to the welfare of one's own being would have to provide translators to those that do not currently speak any english or do not speak it that well but other businesses and organizations that are not viewed as a life or death type of business could opt to not have to spend the $100,000 price it takes to obtain a translator not to mention the cost of printing out all information and alerts in several different languages. Our city is referred to at the "Athens" of the South. Not to mention that in return this would give those that do known the English language the ability to obtain employement as a teacher of the English language or as a translator.

I see this measure was rejected.

NASHVILLE, Tenn. — Nashville voters rejected a proposal on Thursday that would have made it the largest U.S. city to require that all government business be done in English.

With 100 percent of precincts reporting, unofficial results showed the "English First" proposal losing with about 57 percent of voters against it and 43 percent in favor. Proponents said using one language would have united the city and saved money, but business leaders, academics and the city's mayor worried it could give the city a bad reputation. Similar measures have passed elsewhere.
"The results of this special election reaffirms Nashville's identity as a welcoming and friendly city, and our ability to come together as a community," Mayor Karl Dean said in a news release.

The referendum's leader, city Councilman Eric Crafton, had promoted it as a way to unite Nashville and prevent the kind of extensive translation services _ and the associated expenses _ provided by cities like New York or Los Angeles. He has pushed for English only since 2006 and got the issue before voters through a petition drive.

"I support the collective wisdom of the voters. I am not going to bring English up again because the people of Nashville have spoken," Crafton said during a phone interview late Thursday.

[Coolwater]

They speak English in Nashville? :p;)

Seriously, though, there is a movement to change the spelling of English words to phonetic spelling to decrease the amount of illiteracy and dyslexia in the world. Not a bad idea, is it? No more I before E except after C (except for W or any word with German or Italian origins). With a fiu ruls, evreboddy culd rit and red esile.

The thing is, if we did that, then pronunciation would also have to be standardized. Whose pronunciation would we use?? Is PATH to be spelled pahth, path or paiath? Would VEHICLE be ve'ikl or Vehikl? Did you know that in Georgia the town of Monroe can be pronounced MONroe and MonROE in the same sentence by the same speaker? If we argue for English Only, the next thing you know, we'll be legislating Broadcast English only. Or Brahdcast Inglish Onli.

Variety is good!

[Dragon_Farm_Queen]

Yes you are correct. Nashville voters did reject the proposed amendment, as for doing away with proper spelling, I remember when I was in jr. high that teachers in elementary schools were allowing the kids to spell words as they thought it sounded and they ran a news story on this practice and said that due to kids not being taught proper spelling they grow into adults that cannot spell.

[Scarpetta]

I tuk foniks in scool to and now I spell reel good! ;)

[Coolwater]

I learned to read years before I learned to write, and was reading English as well as American books. On my honour, I can't spell for beans.

[Scarpetta]

I learned to read years before I learned to write, and was reading English as well as American books. On my honour, I can't spell for beans.

My spelling has been described in a bit more colorful terms!

[Littledevil]

:D Your commentary is amuzing, o just kidding amusing. Education is vital to progression in humanity.

I didn't mind the envoking of God at the ceremony, just thought it was a little long winded.

When I was working for a Tax Shelter Company we had brochures in English, Spanish, French, and Chinese (Chinese Booklet wasn't even accurate). As far as i was concerned, the brochures in other lanuages were rather pointless and a huge waist of money and resources. Each office was required to have them even if they weren't in our demagraphic and didn't use them.