Digital TV Signals

[pepeperfume]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090127/tv_nm/us_dtv_congress

The converter box coupon program has been up and running since the 1st of February. Coupons received were issued and available to use on the 1st of March. I own one of the retail stores that redeems these things--and along with all the printed information about the program, there is a constant bombardment of TV ads explaining the program and what was to happen come February 17th.

People have had a year to get what is needed so they can watch Digital TV--and a year to apply for the 2 $40.00 coupons to offset the cost--now our government plans to extend date til sometime in June or July for the Analog signal to be shut down--and this is going to cost these TV stations additional money that guess what?? We Americans will have to pay for--just like we are paying for each and every $40.00 coupon that was issued!

I for one am Tired of bailing out everyone--and this bill if passed is going to be yet another thing we will have to pay for---

I don't think if my business went belly up congress would see fit to give me operation expenses to keep me solvant!

[Scarpetta]

Apparently the numbers of people who haven't got the coupons are numerous. The coupons ran out, and some people in some areas couldn't find the converter boxes and the 90 day coupons expired! Not replaceable. Others are finding perhaps an on the roof antenna is needed and will have to purchase that. Not everyone has satelite and cable.

With the number of layoffs and people without jobs. This is the least of our worries.

[pepeperfume]

With the number of layoffs and people without jobs. This is the least of our worries.

That is exactly my point!
Why not allow the end date of 2/17/2009 to stand--rather than waste tax payers dollars voting on extending it, and then financing it. The money I pay into the government could go to help the people being laid off...not to ensure that they are well entertained while laid off!!!:eek:

[EvanStar4506]

Last I heard it was already extended another 4 months.

[Scarpetta]

The companies, which paid $16 billion for the public airwaves in an auction last year, would get 116 extra days on their licenses under the proposed legislation.



Gives poor, elderly, rural four more months.

[renate]

are we talking about the digital tv change next month??
Renate

[Sam]

:confused: I guess I'm one of the few who was bothered by the fact that this was yet another added expense to my already strained family budget imposed on me and totally against my will.
I pay taxes too. I think most of us do in one way or another. Just some more than others.
As for the timetable.... It was three months after the change was announced before the boxes were made available here and most stores could only get about a dozen each. It was four months after the announcement before we were told about any coupons. I applied for the two for my house and my daughter applied at the same time for two for her house (which is next door) immediately.
She got hers the first week of December. I didn't get mine. One of her boxes was defective and the store would only reimburse the part she paid but not the coupon price so she had to wait until they got some more in stock to exchange the defective box.
When I contacted them they said they had ran out of coupons. Many of the stores couldn't get the boxes that were needed to supply the demand. The boxes don't even work on some tv's. They just came out with a special antenna (or rather it's just been made available here) that works with the box so that you can get reception.
The new tv's are pretty expensive and cable isn't available to out lying areas. Satellite isn't always available either and the companies that do supply this area are outrageously expensive.
TV is a great destressor for the unemployed and the impoverished people of any area. It's the only form of entertainment that many people can get or afford.

[Scarpetta]

Your story is common Sam and I have read that as the coupons expire and not used others had been issued them, but you don't get a second chance. They are hoping to correct this with legislation. I believe they are trying to error on the side of caution so as many people who for many reasons, some that you mentioned, and for many others are not ready for this transition.

For many reasons digital seems to be sound judgement. Broadcasters are moving from analog to digital signals to give public safety officials more spectrum, especially useful for emergencies, and to improve viewing quality.

It is the almost 7 Million people that aren't prepared for various reasons that has prompted the June extension.

The companies, which paid $16 billion for the public airwaves in an auction last year, would get 116 extra days on their licenses under the proposed legislation. The digital TV bill extends the licenses of AT&T Inc and Verizon Communications, which are waiting for the airwaves to be vacated when all TVs convert.

Yes Renate that is the digital change that if it makes through Congress will give everyone four months to upgrade to a HD set, or get a converter box, either with help from a coupon or paying the $50 or ? themselves. A new antenna too I understand.

[pepeperfume]

I had boxes ready to sell on the 1st of March. I didn't run out of boxes until mid-july--and then only for a week--people who waited until the day before there coupons expired--(And believe me, there were alot of those people)--were able to prepay for the boxes and when they arrived the following week they could be picked up. The only store in the area that ran out of boxes was Walmart who was selling a cheap Magnavox converter box for $49.99 that didn't have a universal remote and would only show one set of channels.

If people were being picky or just wanted the cheapest box around then they probably found no boxes available) --at least at $49.99. After the $40 coupon that makes the purchase only $9.99--and even the better quality ones--Zenith and Digital Stream that I carried which had universal remotes and could hold 5 channel sets were only &19.99 after the coupon---just how poor are you, if you can't afford that???

I will agree that people using Rabbit ears--especially in my area, 60 miles from Milwaukee, 40 Miles from Madison and 35 miles from Green Bay were/ and are out of luck until they put up an outside Antenna. As for others who had outside Antennas, we found most just needed to add an amplifier or replace corroded ends or bad cables to pull digital signals in.

As for the Elderly--we accommandated all who came to us, even going out to set up boxes for them, and explain the way things work.

From my experience here in small town Wisconsin, if a retailer didn't have enough boxes it was from poor planning, not a lack of available boxes. Even when they were on hold by the manufacturer--it was only a two week wait for them...people had 3 months to use these coupons--why did they wait until the last minute???

I guess because I saw so many people ordering two coupons, but only needing one, or ordering them when they didn't need them so that a friend who had more than two TV's could use them--or people who got coupons and never bothered to look at them to see that they had expiration dates--I feel less than confident that 4 more months will make a difference....

Especially since the converter box coupon program was never intended to cover the cost of converter boxes for everyone--the hope was that people would not get them for the tv they only use once in a blue moon--or that they would take a 20 year old tv--which are the TV that appear to have a problem with the converter boxes, and replace them.

I sell 19" flat screens for $199.99, 26" flat screens for $329.99 and 32" Flat screens for $399.99. Now I agree that at present people should probably just hold on to their money but before the Recession was announced these were the prices of the TVs--if you are not going after a Sony 40" TV with all the bells and whistles you can definitely get a new TV at an affordable price.

But I guess I can only speak about my experience--from my neck of the woods.

[Coolwater]

What I'm wondering about is what happens to emergency communications if something happens to satellite and cable based signals? As it is now, when our cable goes out due to accident or weather, I can drag out my trusty small TV and get the broadcast from the local station via aerial. As paranoid as it sounds, I think we are making a mistake that will result in a reduction of national security.

Frankly, Scarpetta, I've grown so cynical, that I cannot believe that this change is for the betterment of TV viewing. Freeing up the extra bandwidth at the expense of folks who use antennas is no doubt going to make the cable companies and the broadcasters a lot of money.

[Scarpetta]

I have a trusty 13 inch that I pick up with rabbit ears! It came over on the Mayflower I believe. I am looking for a converter, hopefully it works w/o an antenna . Which is an interesting question you posed. Will those emergency services who have taken over that bandwith going to transmit in analog? I think we had better find out....before June!

[JustBecause]

It looks like the House voted today not to extend the deadline. Has anyone heard anything different? :confused:

[EvanStar4506]

This was just posted Jan. 27, 2009

http://duluthpolitics.blogspot.com/2009/01/dtv-extended-by-obama.html

Now it seems as if that the president has extended the time to some time this summer. Now the switch to digital TV seems have to wait.

It was reported that our local station will still go with the original time. I am not sure they can with the extension. I will have to look in to it.

[Scarpetta]

I believe that was a Tuesday article.

House voted Wednesday NOT to extend. House rules required 2/3's majority and the vote was 258-168 not to extend.

Some people I know that already have a digital signal find that bad weather makes for really bad reception.

[EvanStar4506]

I searched and found 1 hour ago...

http://www.al.com/news/press-register/metro.ssf?/base/news/1233243912202930.xml&coll=3

Thursday, January 29, 2009 By SEAN REILLY and MIKE BRANTLEYStaff Reporters
WASHINGTON — In an unexpected rebuff to the White House, the House blocked legislation Wednesday aimed at delaying a nationwide shift to digital television by almost four months. The measure would push back the deadline from Feb. 17 to June 12.

Although the vote in favor of the bill was 258 to 168, that margin fell short of the two-thirds majority needed for passage under a fast-track approach. It was not clear whether majority Democrats would try again under normal rules, which would take only a simple majority vote to win approval for the bill.

"We're reviewing our options," said Stephanie Lundberg, a spokeswoman for House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, D-Md. The bill had skated through the Senate earlier this week on a voice vote.

There's more if you want to read below the advertisements.

[Scarpetta]

Without the 26 votes they probably won't bring it up again, but will however pursue legislation to fix the coupon problem. It won't delay the February to digital conversion, so sayath the Associated Press.

[EROM]

Our Wilmington, NC area is the first in the nation to go all digital. The switch was made before Christmas and apparently there have been few real problems. I guess one could say that we are the "test case" for the rest of the nation. The mayor of Wilmington has appeared in Washington and says that he is still getting calls from many areas. There was a great deal of publicity before the switch and several tests to allow people to see if their TV would work when the switch occurred.

We have cable so there was no problem for us. Others using antenna have had to get boxes. I happened to be in Curcuit City the other day and noticed a stack of them apparently not selling very well. I do know that many people who have cable also ordered the coupon which they really did not need. That may be part of the reason why the supply of coupons has run low.

The only thing I have really noticed in the reception is that occasionally the picture seems to "freeze" or "blink". Then it goes back to the regular picture. At this time, I do not have an HP TV so I am just watching my old set.

For us there has not been any real problems with the switch.

[Scarpetta]

With digital replacing analog, you don't get pretty snow anymore, just little colored boxes as EROM described!

As for people applying for the coupons and not needing them, many have sets that are not hooked to cable, and what stores are seeing are many are purchasing the boxes for some of those shut-ins and elderly who don't get out or understand the technological need for the converter. I applied for two elderly people and am now trying to make sure their antenna receives UHF and VHF. UHF is the band most digital channels will be broadcast on. The plain ol two arm rabbit ears w/o UHF reception won't work.

[Sam]

:rolleyes: Hubby's a procrastinator and I'm a planner...so we have ours covered.
Daughter's coupons came with her name printed on them and an expiration date. She had two weeks from the day she got them in the mail til the date of the expiration. She also had to produce ID at the time of purchase at the store. There was no mention of that when she applied.
A lot of people who had no real need for the coupons took advantage of the program.
I was in the local Walmart this afternoon shopping for party supplies for my granddaughter's birthday and they had quite a few boxes on the shelves.
Those who don't have them will just have to pay full price.
Hubby and I are using the converter boxes on our tv's until after the changeover. We're banking on the fact that as with all things electronic before...the prices will drop on the tv's and then we'll buy a new one.
We've advised daughter to d so too.
As for the economical situation....I personally am ok financially. We stay on a strict budget and live within our means and rely as little as possible on credit.
But we didn't just suddenly wake up in a recession. There have been a great number of people losing jobs and homes LONG before the govt. openly admitted we were in one. When you are in that situation and having to figure out where your next meal is coming from and how to provide for your family until you can land a job......$9.95 and $49.95 can and does make a difference. So tv conversion takes a back seat.
Pepe your customers are getting a great deal on those tv's. Here the prices vary from $75.00 to a $100.00 more.

[Littledevil]

we already have cable and a new TV, so I guess we are ready.

[pepeperfume]

Pepe your customers are getting a great deal on those tv's. Here the prices vary from $75.00 to a $100.00 more.

Unfortunately that is something of a trend in retail recently. To price items by the same retailer at different prices--and having those prices based on there location. Meaning people in New York City won't pay what people in Little town, New York would pay--or in my case, people in Milwaukee, Madison, Green Bay pay more than what they would in my small town, Wisconsin.:mad:

One of the other advantages to living in a city over a small town is usually the fact that TV reception is usually good since the TV stations are usually out of your City--Rabbit ears work there.:)

Walmart is notorious for offering different prices based on where you live--they even do it online and in store prices differences. I know this because I was looking for the 4th season of "Charmed" a year ago and Walmart had it listed for 28.99 on line--I figured I go to the Walmart in my home town and get it. At the store it wa 38.99--and when I told the store clerk about the difference in price she told me to buy the season on line--they didn't match online prices.':eek:
I went down the street to Shopko and got the season for 29.99--so exactly who has the everyday low price???? It's rarely Walmart.

[Sam]

;) Yep Pepe I've noticed that growing trend. Here the smaller stores can't compete with Wal-Mart very well. Their suppliers charge them so much more because they buy in less quantities. If they do get a deal on something...Walmart matches it.
But we have a couple of places that sometimes are able to throw us better deals. I have also noticed a huge difference in the types of items their stock has to offer in all their stores. My daughter and I usually go to the one in the next county from us. It has a large mexican population. So they have a huge variety and cheaper prices.

[Scarpetta]

I'm sure you all know that the Digital conversion has been extended to June. If people had received the coupons, couldn't find a converter and it expired, you were SOL but now you can reapply.

Most coupons I have seen did not have a name on them, and no one asked me for ID when I picked up several for elderly and shut-ins.

As for the rabbit ears. Depends on the distance from the signal and the UHF/VHF thing.

I'm courious as to Sam's comment that 'those with no need for the coupon took advantage'. Any US citizen could apply for them. Your only need was a TV set that did not receive digital signal.

[Amarnagrape]

I'm on strike.

All my favorite shows come out on dvd eventually..... I have enough dvds and tapes to last me through to the next changeover.

C'mon, you know it's gonna happen. F*** 'em. :mad:

[Coolwater]

I'm picking a box up because I'm concerned about emergency broadcasting. If that turns out to be an unfounded concern, I can always give it to one of the charitable organizations for their needly folks.

[Sam]

I'm courious as to Sam's comment that 'those with no need for the coupon took advantage'. Any US citizen could apply for them. Your only need was a TV set that did not receive digital signal.


I meant just that Scarpetta. People who had the newer sets which did not need a box requested coupons too and of course there were those who got them in an attempt to make an extra buck.
Most of the stations here have chosen to ignore the new federal date and have either already made the change or will be doing so on Feb.17.

:eek:We finally got a satellite provider to grace our little community in the stix. So we now have satellite.

[Scarpetta]

I meant just that Scarpetta. People who had the newer sets which did not need a box requested coupons too and of course there were those who got them in an attempt to make an extra buck.
Most of the stations here have chosen to ignore the new federal date and have either already made the change or will be doing so on Feb.17.

:eek:We finally got a satellite provider to grace our little community in the stix. So we now have satellite.

How would they make an extra buck? In this economy hanging on to our bucks is important. I have a set that may have come over on the Mayflower, but it works great in the kitchen especially when meal preperation is at hand and the news is on! I could throw out 'Bessy' into the trash, or I could get a coupon and pay$10 or less...option 1, or I could pay the $50 or so dollars. I chose to get the coupon and save the $40 for other pressing things. Perhaps save it for a new, small HDTV, when Bessy blows!

[Coolwater]

Excellent point, Pet.

[Sam]

Scarpetta we have a criminal element around here that would steal the horns off a billygoat if they thought they could make a dime off of them. Crack addicts and methheads mostly. You probably wouldn't expect that in the rural south but it is rampant.
Coupons were stolen from mailboxes as well as any other mail.
But to answer your question.......They get the coupons anyway they can. Then they go out and buy the boxes for $10.00. Then when people can't get the coupons (either because theirs has been stolen or because they ran out...) and the changeover has occurred.......the criminals sell the boxes for less than the amount they are selling for at the stores but for more than the $10.00 they got the boxes for. Therefore taking the profits they made to buy drugs or whatever else....
As I have said earlier...decent wages and jobs have been scarce in this area of the state for a very long time and that increases these types of criminal behavior.
Kids are using and dealing drugs in elementary school here. If you park your car somewhere it gets broken into and they will even steal parts off it.
They will steal your air conditioner while it is running and either sell it to someone else, keep it for their own use, or sell it as scrap metal and get paid extra because of the copper wires. They have ripped off utility lines and boxes from homes where people are living so that they can sell the copper from that.
People living in poverty or near poverty levels will find ways to keep surviving no matter what they have to do to others to achieve that goal.

[Scarpetta]

Regarding the theft of coupons Sam. Is this from your own observation or are you referencing news articles regarding it?

There must be a whole lot of mail being stolen from mailboxes in order for this to be a decisive problem.

The theft of mail a criminal offense in its own right. Perhaps this is why rural mailboxes are discouraged.

As for poverty. You live in Georgia?

The poverty rate among all Americans is currently estimated at about one in eight, among those 18 and younger it is about one in six.

19.7 percent of Georgia 's children live in poverty

Only state that is higher is Texas....23.2 percent.

The number of poor children in the United States is greater than the combined populations of New York and Los Angeles.


"There can be no keener revelation of a society's soul than the way in which it treats its children." – Nelson Mandela

That doesn't say a great deal for the US, and specific States does it? The problem is greater than digital conversion, which by the way, and many of you have stated is already here, or will be tomarrow. Some may still have until June.

The larger picture is the Stimulus that was just passed and to be signed by President Obama tomarrow addressing some of what we desperately need:

Increase monthly food stamp benefits by more than 13 percent.
- $100 million for emergency food and shelter to help community groups.

^Workers
- $4 billion for job training.
- $2 billion for the Neighborhood Stabilization Program to help communities buy and fix up foreclosed, vacant properties.
- $1.5 billion for the Emergency Shelter Grant program to provide short-term rental assistance and other aid.
- Payment of $250 to Social Security and disability recipients and veterans receiving disability compensation and pension benefits from the Department of Veterans Affairs.
- Extends Trade Adjustment Assistance benefits over the next two years for at least 160,000 new workers who lose their jobs because of increased imports or factory shifts to certain foreign countries.

And for the Health care part and poverty

- $87 billion for Medicaid health care coverage for the poor.

That is only a small part that is in the Stimulus. Republicans called it ' Over-Spending' with a degogatory spin. All the GOP wanted was $2.5 Trillion in tax cuts and lowering of the TOP wealthier rates from 34% to 25%. The stimulus has tax cuts, but mostly for middle class and small business.

Remember who stood in opposition.

Mitch McConnell, John McCain, Jon Kyl, Lindsey Graham, John Boehner, and other Washington Republicans (along with the Right’s echo chamber) whining and griping about the “excessive spending".

Sorry for expounding but it seemed appropriate.

[Sam]

Actually both Scarpetta. Just about everyone in this area has had their mail stolen at one time or another. No one gets caught so no one gets prosecuted.
At $48.00 a year plus the cost of gas to drive all that way to town and back to check your mail.......most neighbors are retired elderly....so most can barely make it to the mailbox let alone to town.
I know most of those here in law enforcement and we talk about what goes on.
AND YES I do live in Georgia. Those percentages are actually higher since many cases are no recorded. Don't get me wrong though, there is a lot of big money in the state but it stays in the pockets of a few.
I am glad you posted that breakdown of the stimulus package for us though. I really wanted to know how it was going to be spread around.
And like you said...most of us have already gone through the change-over. And even though it was an annoyance and an added expense we have survived it. ;):D

[Scarpetta]

Those are distressing things happening in your community Sam.

I posted only a small portion of the stimulus. The text of it are posted on the web, if you have the fortitude to read the 1,000 or so pages. I think this hits some good points:

Health Care

- $87 billion for Medicaid health care coverage for the poor.
- $19 billion to accelerate the use of health information technology systems.

Education
- $53.6 billion in direct aid to states, including $40.6 billion for local school districts, $5 billion in bonus grants for meeting key education performance measures and $8 billion for public safety and other critical services.
- $2,500 annual tax credit for higher education expenses.
- $500 increase in the maximum Pell Grant for low-income college students to $5,350 in 2009 and $5,550 in 2010.
- $13 billion for Title I grants for schools in low-income areas.
- $12.2 billion for special education.
- $2 billion for the Child Care Development Block Grant program to help low-income parents.
- $1.1 billion for Early Head Start and $1 billion for Head Start.

Infrastructure
- $29 billion to modernize roads and bridges.
- $18 billion for clean water, flood control and environmental restoration.
- $8.4 billion for transit.
- $8 billion for high-speed rail.
- $5 billion to upgrade Defense Department facilities, including housing for troops.
- $4.5 billion to make federal office buildings more energy-efficient.

Tax cuts
- "Making Work Pay" tax credit of $400 for single filers earning up to $100,000 and $800 for couples earning up to $200,000.
- Allow low-income families earning as little as $3,000 to qualify for the child tax credit.
- Expands the Earned Income Tax Credit for families with three or more children and increases marriage penalty relief.
- Exempts 24 million taxpayers, for another year, from the Alternative Minimum Tax.
- Revises the $7,500 tax credit for first-time homebuyers by removing the repayment requirement.
- Exempts from federal taxes the state and local sales taxes paid on the purchase of cars, light trucks and SUVs.
- Temporarily exempts some unemployment benefits from income taxes.

Unemployed
- Continues through December 2009 the program that provides up to 33 weeks of extended unemployment benefits.
- $25 increase in weekly unemployment benefits.
- A 60 percent federal subsidy for up to nine months for the cost of continuing an employer's health care coverage after a layoff under COBRA.

Food
- Increase monthly food stamp benefits by more than 13 percent.
- $100 million for emergency food and shelter to help community groups.
^Workers
- $4 billion for job training.
- $2 billion for the Neighborhood Stabilization Program to help communities buy and fix up foreclosed, vacant properties.
- $1.5 billion for the Emergency Shelter Grant program to provide short-term rental assistance and other aid.
- Payment of $250 to Social Security and disability recipients and veterans receiving disability compensation and pension benefits from the Department of Veterans Affairs.
- Extends Trade Adjustment Assistance benefits over the next two years for at least 160,000 new workers who lose their jobs because of increased imports or factory shifts to certain foreign countries.

Energy
- $30 billion for a smart power grid, advanced battery technology and other energy efficiency measures.
- $20 billion in tax incentives for renewable energy and energy efficiency over the next 10 years.
- $6.3 billion for energy efficiency in multifamily housing getting federal assistance, such as HUD-sponsored low-income housing.
- $5 billion to weatherize more than 1 million homes owned by "modest-income" families.

Science
- $8.5 billion for programs at the National Institutes of Health, including biomedical research on Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, cancer and heart disease.
- $3 billion for basic research by the National Science Foundation.
- $1.6 billion for the Department of Energy's Office of Science for areas such as climate, biofuels, high-energy physics, nuclear physics and fusion energy.
- $1.5 billion for NIH to renovate university research facilities.
- $1 billion for NASA, including $400 million for climate change research.

Broadband
- $7 billion to expand broadband services to under-served communities.

Some hope that it won't work to help our nation and economy. Why would anyone want us to fail?

[Coolwater]

May our new debt pay for good works!