Come, prey, to the hunters!

[Coolwater]

A couple of years ago in a thread over on APUK, Maxx2 said, "Oh, yes, we will still love Adrian even when he is old and saggy," or words to that effect. I leave it to you to decide whether Maxx was being pious or sarcastic (cough: smart ass!: cough), but he did raise a good point. AP is taking good care not to become saggy, but he can't help the old part. Eventually Father Chronos will lay his heavy hand upon him and smack him with a few wrinkles even Stephy can't erase. In this culture, as we age we are deemed less attractive, yet there are some men out there who still have IT.

Why? Why do some men continue to draw us, even at 90, and others don't?

And no piety. "We will love Adrian forever," is loving and sincere, but it doesn't answer the question.

[appeace]

Good point, Cool.
Could it be that Adrian and other older, still "it" men have a certain personality that attracts in spite of the ravages of time? For example, a "glint" in the eye, a bit of rascally emotion to the face, a "never know quite what he's up to" personality?
Perhaps its because most women and some men, look to a combination of personality and looks. Good looks and a stinky personality usually dont keep fans long. However, the combo of good looks and an honest, hardworking, caring personality seem to every time.;)

[L_Shell]

Perhaps its because most women and some men, look to a combination of personality and looks. Good looks and a stinky personality usually dont keep fans long. However, the combo of good looks and an honest, hardworking, caring personality seem to every time.;)

I have to agree...it's not just one thing, it's a combination. I believe a sense of humor, humility, honesty and a strong sense of being keeps the fans steadfast.

[Coolwater]

That's almost certainly true at some level. Too universally true, though, to be of any use. I mean, the Mahatma Gandhi had all those traits, and while he induced awe, he never made me want to flirt with him.

[appeace]

I dont think I ever saw a photo of Gandhi that would indicate, to me at least, that he was a handsome man???? I do believe it has to be the combination of handsome looks and that "spark" of sensual/playful/flirty emotion along with the great personality.:D

[Coolwater]

True, you did say that it was both physical and behavior. But haven't you known men who weren't gorgeous but who were attractive as all get out? Haven't you met less attractive men who made you feel like they'd make it worth your while to go to bed with them, and that you'd be good friends afterwards?

You keep mentioning mischief, app. That was a quality Paul Newman had, too. Along with good looks. ;)

[appeace]

You bet! those eyes of his were to die for;)
Yes, if a man had the other afore mentioned attributes, then even if, by some mystical standard, he wasnt as drop dead good lookin as Adrian I would still be attracted. However, dont judge by me because looks are not the first thing I look for in any person.:) Generally, I look at how the person treats others.

[Coolwater]

Well, I think that is more true of women than of men, don't you think? And lucky for the men! :D All right, then, "It" is both physical and behavioral, but perhaps behavioral is more important. We'll have to see what the others think.

If we are honest with ourselves, though, we admit that we do like to look at attractive men more than unattractive ones. Can't be too hard on ourselves for that, as science shows that that preference is inborn: even new born babies prefer to look at faces with regular, symetrical (sp?) features, and larger eyes and mouths.

Oh! I suppose that the physical part of "It" could be that old folks who manage to keep their features regular, stay more attractive than those who don't? That's a weird thought!

What else? Think of the old men you've seen who are attractive, and tell me why they are, please.

[Lt.Mac]

It's the soul behind the eyes ,ladies,that never gets old- no matter old gray and wrinkled one may become the soul is what draws one to you-
Flabby comes to everyone eventually, no matter how hard you fight it, it will catch up, but the spirit defers from others noticing.

[Coolwater]

Amen, but how do you know what the soul is saying? What behavior gives it away?

And exactly what does an attractive man's soul say?

[Lt.Mac]

Ah! now that, as Hamlet said, is the rub. It takes some practice and a bit of a nack to look in someone's eyes and see into the soul- behaviors can cover up and disguise but the soul never lies.
You ever instantly get the feeling when meeting someone that you just can't trust them, no matter how good looking they are or gentlemanly they act?
follow that instinct - Good or bad their soul is talking to you.

[Scarpetta]

Moral strength, self -discipline, fortitude as in character perhaps?

You see the spiritual immortal entity, the soul Lt. Mac. You are good!

I never thought I was qualified to evaluate 'souls' but I often do well at judging character. Well, not all the time.

The human condition is noted for surprising us. The older I get the less surprised I get.

[Coolwater]

It really is a knack. Like, if you look someone in the eyes, and he smiles with his mouth, but those little muscles around the eyes don't crinkle, then he's just not feeling it. And if he looks a little smug while he's smiling and not crinkling, then he's smiling to lie to you. If he smiles without crinkling, but also looks sad or tired, then his intentions are probably good, that is, he'd like to convey good will, but he can't pull it off. So in that last case, even though the guy can't quite pull off the heartfelt smile, you should believe him anyway, because he means it even if he isn't feeling it. Complicated.

Paul Eckman has done a lot of truly awesome research on nonverbal behavior, and has cataloged a lot of it. Eckman is amazing: he can move all the muscles in his face independently, and if you name an emotional state (chagrin mixed with pride, say), he can make his facial muscles show it for you. His smiles are very nice! ;)

I can't imagine having to generate all the right facial muscle movements, AND the body nonverbals, AND remember lines, AND get the accent right, AND stand in the right places AND do it as many times as it takes for everyone in a scene to get it all the way a director wants. No wonder there are so many bad actors in the world.

Anyway.

So, as the shrinks say, "what I hear you saying is," that an older man is attractive by virtue of as good an appearance as he can muster, plus a basically good character (honest, humble, kind, etc.), self-confident, and has a hearty dose of mischief. Being both humble and self-confidence sounds like it could be a good trick, but I think maybe you mean, the man is not arrogant?

Oh, you know what I'd add to that list? Men of any age are most attractive when they convey that they like women as people, and they find me attractive, too. Something else Newman and AP manage to do for their costars. There's a scene in HL that I particularly like in which Duncan invites a nightclub singer to dance with him - the Danny Cimoli ep, maybe? AP looks totally lighthearted, "You're attractive. I'm safe. Come and dance with me. Pure fun!" The woman just lights up and takes his hand. It's a lovely scene and all that is conveyed nonverbally. Damn fine.

Newman probably charmed the nurses round his deathbed with that quality. "You're attractive. I'm going to the Great Beyond. It'll be fun. Come along?" :D

[JustBecause]

Hey CW, I'm anal enough as it is and all this 'analyze the smile' business is really messing with my head. It probably works for most people, but I can just see myself losing my mind trying to figure out every eye crinkle and lip movement. Y'all can come visit me in the funny farm. :D :D

I can't really tell right off if someone is genuine or not. So I just take them as they present themselves, and adjust my relationship with them as we spend more time with each other. I know that first impressions count - but for me, it's the long term stuff that really sticks. :)

Lt. Mac, I agree - to see into someone's soul has to be a very rare, very special thing.

[Coolwater]

Oh, no! Don't go all skippy in the head, Just Because! :D Eckman recommends doing exactly what you said. Reading nonverbal behavior at that level is a very hard skill to learn, and because people are so variable, you could learn it all and still get it wrong.

Still, we interpret folk's nonverbals all the time, so don't sweat it. Even babies do it; you've seen them looking uncertainly at their parents to see if a new thing is OK? And that's why we have smilies. That's how we know what our babies and pets are communicating, too. I'd say that if someone gives you what my mother used to call "bad vibes," you're probably seeing a warning in his behavior and you might be a little careful. You know more than you think.

So, JB, what do you think older men do that makes them attractive?

[JustBecause]

:eek: No, no, no!!! Don't put me on the spot! :D

It's a bit hard to explain and I'm trying to find the words.

What I find attractive about any man - older or not - is the sincerity, self-assurance and civility that comes with having not just lived, but having lived well. I don't mean 'well' as in richly or extravagantly, I mean it as in whatever that person defines as 'well'.

Am I making any sense?

[Coolwater]

Yes! Very good sense! And that might be something very pleasing that an older man would have more of to offer than a younger one. Perhaps not so much, "I have seen it all," as "I've seen interesting things that I will share with you and I am ready to see more," yes? Add civility to that and we have a winner! ;)

[JustBecause]

Yes! Very good sense!

Oh good - I thought I was rambling. :)

And that might be something very pleasing that an older man would have more of to offer than a younger one. Perhaps not so much, "I have seen it all," as "I've seen interesting things that I will share with you and I am ready to see more," yes? Add civility to that and we have a winner! ;)

I think so too.

[Lt.Mac]

I don't claim to be an expert at reading people's soul(it's a spiritual thing)- everyone can do it at one level or another- it's just that "the knack" was something I had to learn long, long ago in my childhood days as sort of a "Survival device" . I have had lots of practice.
An excellent actor can have the capability of that detailed emotional and behavioral control but I have found that some of the "best" actors (not just men) are not on the screen or stage but most often standing right next to you. A man who is outwardly virtuous, self-confident, does all the right things may still be very empty behind those handsome eyes and shining smile.
Celebs make it easy to see into their souls that's why fans can connect so easily, they are willing to share(through their art) and that willingness helps to make them even more attractive.
I don't always get it right. My hubby once told me I should have been a profiler, so did the military but I can't do it on demand it's like being a psychic it shows up when it feels like it.
Good looks, sincerity and all that catch my eye but what's behind his is what creates the glue. I think maybe that's why there is so much divorce in the world, people are not making the right kind of connections.
Oh well I'm rambling too! and the battery on the laptop is telling me to go to bed.
night all

[Coolwater]

Not to be a cynic or nothin', but I, too, have a little voice in the back of my mind saying, "Actors act." So they do. A good actor should be able to convince most of us that he's not acting. We ask actors to be "idols" and so some of them play the role for us.

Pious Voice : Adrian would never do that.
Me: Oh, hush, Maxx!

I'm thinking that maintaining a balance between humanity vs perfection, and honesty vs privacy must be a pretty delicate tight rope dance. Ladies, personally, I've enjoy AP's self-deprecating humor, and empathized with his blogging about irritation with difficult assistant directors, phone eating toilets, bad films, parking tickets and other temper-trying situations.

Can we add imperfection to the qualities we like in an older man - or any man?

[L_Shell]

Can we add imperfection to the qualities we like in an older man - or any man?

The bottom line is; nobody is perfect. Everyone has faults. That's what makes us who we are. We look actors as if they were from another planet. We are the ones that put them on a pedestal. I think that AP is one of the few actors that has realized that if it weren't for the fans, he would not have the life he does. He appreciates us and is not afraid to show it. I believe him to be sincere. (coming from me, that says a lot). For me, I would take imperfection any day!

[brilliant!MacLeod]

Can we add imperfection to the qualities we like in an older man - or any man?[/QUOTE]

I think it´s not the imperfection itself,it´s the ability to ADMIT to be imperfect and to laugh about yourself what makes certaian men :D so attractive beside the other things you all already mentioned.
There might be some living by the motto:" Nobody is perfect-I´m nobody" but certainly not AP!!
It´s the humour twinkling in his eyes,few young men have this,maybe they don´t have enough experience or still think they have to prove what superheroes they are?

[appeace]

Perhaps, with AP anyway, its that he goes out of his way to make his fans feel as if he is one of us. He doesnt seem to look down from some lofty pedestal, tho we try mightily to put him on one:D
He in "in the moment", engaging, and interested when interacting with fans which makes us feel appreciated and accepted by him.
Thus causing us to feel as if we truly know his heart as a good man.

[Coolwater]

Mostly I agree with you all, but L_Shell, I've been thinking about this: "We look actors as if they were from another planet. We are the ones that put them on a pedestal."

Maybe not from another planet, but certainly from another plane of existence. Do you have any idea how exasperating it is to have a neighbor come over, weeping too hard to talk, and you try to calm her only to discover that she just wanted to see if her "crying" was convincing? Another one came over and asked if I'd watch something, and them she "threw up" some sort of tapioca pudding mess on my floor. Was that good? (Actually, yes: I almost threw up for real in response.) Or in another lifetime, Sledge Eater joined us at a fancy dinner with a katana hidden in his coat to see if it really could be done. He plopped down in my office another time, visited a while, and finally I had to ask, "Sledge, why do you have an automatic weapon hidden under your jacket?" Well, silly me - so he could see whether I'd notice it, of course!

Boy, I tell you what, once you get identified as a handy, tolerant audience, there is no telling what is going to come dancing, crawling, singing, declaiming, and marching through your door and past your windows, and in what sort of outfits. It's a lot of fun, once you get a bit used to it, but there are times... !

So, do you think it is fair to think of actors as commonplace when they work so hard not to be? And don't kid yourself: many of them haul themselves up on that gilded pedestal with ropes, pitons, and their own fingernails. I'm just not sure that some of them understand the possible ramifications of succeeding.

Now. Where were we? Oh, yeah. Do you think AP should let his hair go gray? Or let it fall out all together? That worked remarkably well for Sean Connery, who looks far better as an old man than he did when he was young.

[Littledevil]

I have always said...You can tell what kind of person they are in the first 5minutes of a conversation with them. When you first meet someone, the unknown can be a little unnerving. I mean in the sense of getting to know someone, lets say trying to ask out on a date. I have always been able to read people really well and know what kind of person they are. Hubby is beginning to believe when I tell him not to trust someone, because I have proven it time and time again. I try to follow my gut and it works for me. People put off energy and if you pay attention you can pick up on it and tell when someone is being genuine or not. Maybe for me it is just a keen sense of intuition.

As for Adrian growing old...he will never be old in my eyes, grey or not. a little bit of grey doesn't hurt him in any way. Personally I loved his hair long, but short does him good too. I just wish we were closer in age and I lived near him. Maybe I could have snagged him. Alexandra is a very lucky woman, but really I think Adrian is the lucky one. She is great too.

[Coolwater]

Well, what should any man do to maintain his physical attractiveness over time? I've been looking at various hot older gentlemen lately - not exactly a painful task - and I'm kind of ambivalent. Patrick Stewart is hot, and when next gen came out he attracted quite a number of young women as well as older ones, so it can be done. William Shatner is charming, but he is hot only when he's on a horse - I'm a sucker for men who move well, and the Shat's skill on a horse blows me away. Sean Connery is hotter physically than he was as a young man, and he does charming very very well. (I still haven't forgiven him for thinking that it is OK to slap women around, however. That is anti-hot.) David McCallum is charming, but not hot, mainly because the character he's playing is such a fogie. I think in a different role, well, who knows? And of course, Paul Newman was totally hot. All these man are considerably older than AP. Can we learn anything from them?

Is it possible to be chubby and hot? The Victorians thought stout men were sexy, but I don't think we do now. I think it is possible to be less flexible and still hot, provided that the stiff back can be portrayed as elegance and dignity, ala Ricardo Montalban.

What else? Or are you bored with the subject?

[L_Shell]

Everything goes back to that cliche "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder". Everyone is different and likes different qualities.

[brilliant!MacLeod]

Everything goes back to that cliche "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder". Everyone is different and likes different qualities.

I can identify with that!!!

[Coolwater]

Hmmmmm... I almost said yes to that. The thing is, we're not everyone. We're here because we enjoy AP, which means that as a group we have some tastes and values in common. For example, with perhaps the exception of the liberal vs conservative dimension, we all seem to be in agreement that this is a man who shows really good values and temperament. There are women who are attracted to men who are chronically arrogant, or depressed, or wild, or just plain nuts, but we aren't them. Our preference for the activities of a generous, adventurous, optimistic person is a reflection of our own values, don't you think? Dare to eat snow!

While it's fair to expect that AP will quit flinging himself off roofs and out of trees as he gets older, I don't think he'll quit trying new things or teaching us interesting facts. If it is true that we become more ourselves with age, then AP doing just fine. And so we've talked character to a conclusion, don't you think?

Now I'm curious to know what physical characteristics we like in older men. And I don't think we need to worry about hurting AP's feelings with the discussion. He looks at least 15 years younger than he ought to, and besides, he doesn't qualify as "older" yet. He's younger than I am, and I'm still middle aged! :p

[Sam]

;) I can tell whether or not I like someone and can trust them within the first five minutes I meet them. And most of it does have to do with their eyes.
Eyes with a twinkle...Sexy? LORD YESSSS!!!
But I think that twinkle comes from a passion for life and knowledge that comes from having lived it and loved it. It speaks to you. It says I have uncovered many secrets and I might be willing to share some of them with you.
Its like a beautiful spider web glistening with dew in the sunlight. But you know if you touch it that you will become captured by it. Once bitten ...it will run through your veins, so hang on and be prepared to take the ride of your life. :p

[Coolwater]

Good heavens, Sam! You make twinkly eyes sound like a vampire bite! :D So, tell me about older men, and what do the hot ones have that the others do not?

Where've you been, girl? Are you doing OK? I expected you on this thread ages ago. Scarpetta, too.

[Sam]

HEY COOL!! Im OK. RL just tried to kick my butt. But Im fighting my way back through it and when I am done.....well.....it may kick my butt...BUT at least it will KNOW Ive been there!!:D

Some younger men have that IT factor but it is more prevalent in older men.
Usually in those that have blazed their own path. Even if they fear a challenge...they will never back down and or let it show.
Its that Bad Boy magnetism. Even if they are elusive to you...you have an overwhelming desire to know what secrets lie behind those eyes.
Just being in their presence is an adventure. With them you can always expect the unexpected. Being in love with them can drive you to the brink of insanity and back. BUT they love with the same fierce passion as they live. The woman who captures their heart walks a fine line. She has to know when to hold him close and just when to let him run loose.
Its like a beautiful stallion in the wild. Running loose they are power and grace
all rolled into one. But if captured they either bolt for freedom or their spirit withers away.
I think it is that free spirit that they seem to possess and most people desire to have.;)

[L_Shell]

Well said Sam...here, here!

[appeace]

I agree with you to a point, Sam. However, I think if these particular men were totally free spirits they would have extreme problems in the area of lasting relationships, which Adrian and Sir Sean do not.
I think I lean more towards the theory that, having lived life to the fullest, these gentlemen have gained an innate knowledge of life experiences, amongst those, what a woman looks for in a man and how to treat a woman. This, I think, accounts for the spark, the look in his eyes, the attractions, which only become more prevalent with age and added experience.
After all, I dont hear lots of men talking about how well the above mentioned gentlemen have aged:rolleyes:

[Coolwater]

Whew! (fanning self) You should write romance novels, Sam!

But see, y'all ladies are still talking character. Clearly the twinkle is important, even if its significance is debatable. What is good and bad physically? A friend of mine said the other day that she didn't care if a man got fat as long as his clothes were well tailored to his girth. I'm not sure what I think about that.

[appeace]

Heavier--no problem here, as long as they take care in grooming and dressing. Tho I would like to see him take care of his health, I dont base relationships on weight but on character.:)

[Dragon_Farm_Queen]

This is a really interesting topic. I being one that was always attracted to men 10+ years older than me have often had to explain this to those that couldn't understand why I prefer older men over those closer to my age. Even my own father has questioned me on why do you like older men? He asks me that more now than ever because my father is almost 60 years old and has girls 25-30 hitting on him lately and he can't figure out why. He thinks they are just nuts for even liking an older man. Well, I can't speak for other women but I do know what I find attractive in an older man.

First, I'll talk about the physical side of what I like about men in general. I can't stand the thought of lean men. Nor do I like to look at men that spend hours upon hours in the gym sculpting themselves. I prefer to look at "real" men who have a little belly hanging over their waistbands, they have to have wide shoulders, hands that are at least twice my size, I don't like blonde or red-haired men, I don't like light skinned men (the darker their skin the more I am drawn to them). If they are ivory skinned and have a face full of freckles it makes me cringe, I don't like facial hair on a man. I don't mind a man with long fingers but his fingers need to have some meat on them, if they are skinny fingers they make me cringe. Also I do not care about the height of a man, but more about how he's filled out body wise and his skin color and hair color.

Now the non physical side of a man is I am attracted to a man who knows what he wants and how he's going to get it. Integrity, ambition, self assuranace, those that encourage instead of hinder, those that push you to stand on your own feet but yet don't panic when you can't stand on your feet and step in to help you get back on your feet.

I have 3 men like that in my life. My grandfather, my father, and my husband, and each of them are men that I look at from a physical and non-physical eyes and see that they still have 'it'. My grandfather is almost 79 years old and gets women in their 30's that still chase after him

My father of course as I told you is almost 60 years old and can't figure out why young women hit on him

My own husband who is 66 years old is one that time and time again, has proven to others that have met us that just cause he's older does not mean he doesn't have "it". The most endearing comment my husband and I ever got was when a Mexican couple from our church came to us and questioned why we don't have any children together. The man who was barely in his 20's told us that he believed our kids would turn out be the most beautiful children in the whole congregation. He was saddened when we told him that we couldn't have children together.

[Coolwater]

:D Good to see a woman who knows what she likes. Maturation is a good thing.

[Dragon_Farm_Queen]

Thanks coolwater. I think that is what is the missing piece of the puzzle when it comes to women who like older men instead of younger men, is because we know that the younger men 99% of the time do not know what they want or how to obtain it for that matter. I actually find it comical when I see a young man that thinks he's all that in a bag of cookies hitting on lady after lady and getting no where,and then he watches as an older man goes to these same ladies and though the older man might not be as physically attractive as the younger man, the younger man learns a fast and hard lessen that it isn't so much what they say or what kind of moves they make, it's in how it's presented.

[Littledevil]

I have always loved older men. Hubby is 6 years older than me. It doesn't seem like that much, but when your barely 20 and hubby is 26 and hanging out with some of his friends can be like a fish out of water. Everyone teased him he was robbing the cradle. He was definitly the bad boy type. He just turned 37 and he has settled down quite a bit from his 20's. He was always more mature than younger guys I have dated.

The eyes do tell you a lot, but you must remember that eyes can lie. It can be easy to be deceived if you don't pay attention.

[Coolwater]

(sadly) Yeah, especially when you see only what you want to. Those rose colored glasses can be killers!

Did you know that men who marry after the age of 40 are significantly more likely to stay married than those who marry younger? That may support your thinking, ladies.

[Sam]

:cool: Stands to reason Cool. By then they have usually sewn those wild oats and know what they want from life and from their partner in life.;)

[brilliant!MacLeod]

Did you know that men who marry after the age of 40 are significantly more likely to stay married than those who marry younger? That may support your thinking, ladies.[/QUOTE]



Oops.too late!!!
If I had known this a little earlier.....:D

[appeace]

I think it only stands to reason that, if the mind doesnt fully develop until age 25, then any one who marries before that age really doesnt know what they truly want in life or in a mate.
I know I sure didnt!:rolleyes: