OT and shocking

[hcla]

I know this may not be the platform to discuss the following subject, but life to me is precious... no matter if you are a child or elderly. I came across a news article that a report has been released about how to triage people in the event of a pandemic, or flu outbreak, it went on about who doctors won't save... top of the list 85 years old and above, people with dementia, and advanced forms of alzhiemers, 60 years old and severly burned, on the list went.... peoples suffering trauma, that if survived their abilities limited may not get treatment, on the list went, and I'm under the immpresion that this would also extend to the disadvantage and poor.

What has the world come to,when a group of "highly distiguished, and accredited doctors" are sitting around drawing up plans to choose who lives and who dies. They want this plan to go out to all hosp., so "we all think alike"
SICK. Having cared for the aged for 17 + years, all levels, and complexities, I could never allow one to not be treated when sick. I notice the empasis was put on advanced alzhiemers. These folks feel, no matter how ill their mind may be, and I guarentee, they may not know what time of day it is, or who you are, or where they are.. but they know love, compassion, pain, fear, and loneliness. I could not imagine a quad, whose mind is intack, being let die, after struggling to survive, or a child made poor due to no fault of its own, uneducated, left to die because its probable that he or she won't be a productive part of sociaity.
I always believed that alot of docs simply did'nt want bothered with the old or poor, this really proves it. They stroll in, with an attitude that your old and I have bigger and better things to do, or once they know your not insured, appt. over. Well I hope to god that the world dont stand for this s..t.

[appeace]

Ya know---Drs get old TOO!:mad:
When one plays God, one usually pays the price and the same "guidelines" they apply to folks will, one day, be applied to them.

[hcla]

Well said appeace. Should anyone like to read the article, I found it on yahoo news , asso. press titled ....Who should M.D'S let die in a pandemic? Report Offers Ansewers. Released out of Chicago.

[bryant.wanda]

This has already happened. When hurricane Katrina hit, some of the doctors and nurses decided to kill the patients they felt were to ill or was going to die anyway. They felt they weren't worth moving to safety. They were just aquitted several months ago. So they are already getting away with this.


Wanda:(

[Sam]

:mad: It's been going on far longer than most people realize. It's why I left the medical profession. I saw people being turned away from hospitals to die because they didn't have the money or insurance. I saw elderly people abandoned at nursing homes by their families because they couldn't pay. I saw elderly people being denied nutrition because the doctors didn't think they could make it. I saw smokers and cancer patients not being treated because the doctors decided it was a waste of their time. I saw mentally handicapped people being abused and neglected because they couldn't communicate what was happening to them. I saw the wealthy get treated and those who really needed the same treatment turned away. Not being someone who could keep my mouth shut...I asked questions and was told if I wanted to continue to work in medicine I had to remain quiet and accept that that was the way things were!! Beginning in 1971 the medical profession stopped being about taking care of sick people and became a corporate ran industry. I couldn't handle being told to let someone die who could be saved. So I walked away from the medical profession and never renewed my license. There are still some people out there who really do care and they stay with it trying to just save the ones they can. There was a very interesting story on 60 MINUTES last night about a doctor turning around the medical treatment of the people of Haiti and that some places in the US are trying to get back to that. The doctor said that every human being should be entitled to the best healthcare possible!! I totally agree with him!! I wish there were more like him. Health care should be a basic human right!!

[bryant.wanda]

Over in Dubai, one of the richest countries in the world, every citizen has free health care. If they can do it, we should be able to do something.


Wanda

[hcla]

yeah, I'm aware it's been going on before I was born, and katrina is a good example of what will happen.... those involved recieved terminal doses of "comfort meds", this amounts to murder, plain and simple. A god sqad type team in every hosp. scares the hell out of me, but as long as I'm blessed to live and breath, I'll continue in health care,and one thing I can control is what happens in my own home and the ones I care for. I always wanted to further my education so I'd have the degrees to back me up when advocating for change, but sometimes I think i'd rather not put myself in their catagorie, a bunch of book smart, no common sense,morons. :(:mad: my dog has more feelings then some of these nurses and docs I've encountered.

[bryant.wanda]

All we can do is treat others right. And hope that if we are ill, there will be someone to look over us.

Wanda:)

[JustBecause]

That medical professionals could behave this way is so disturbing and inhumane. What ever happened to the Hippocratic Oath? :confused: There may be a clause or two in it that people may disagree with, but over all the intent is for a physician to provide care to whomever needs it.

All I can say is that if it's true that 'everything comes full circle' and 'you reap what you sow' then these so called medical professionals are placing themselves on the receiving end of a h**l of a payback.

[Sam]

:mad: Well it seems I took the Hippocratic Oath and they took the Hippocitic Oath. I swore to do no harm and try to save as many lives as I could...But they swore to make as much money off the rich as they could and exterminate the poor, elderly and mentally impaired as they could.
The blame doesn't belong on the nursing staff. They are following doctors orders to keep their jobs....Or do they share in it?? How long do you think a hospital would stay open without a nursing staff especially since doctors are putting all the responsibilities on them. But they won't do it because too many people now days are afraid to stand up for what they believe is right.

:oOK climbing down off my soap box for a cool down.

[hcla]

I'm never afraid to stand up and advocate for what is right, I know so many nurses that have, and some left their jobs or was fired. I found myself unemployed more then once years ago, in nursing homes the attitude is stip them and flip them, their no more then a filled bed and a paycheck while the owners wallet gets fat...its a sick enviroment, the majority of girls working the floor treated the people as if they were product, and half assed the job, then we'd go to care meetings and listen to hype about how the folks should be taken care of, and as soon as everyone was out on the floor, it was all forgotten. 1 aid to 32 people is not exceptable, one nurse to 150 people is not exceptable, the standards have changed, its now 1 aid to 15...what a joke. The cost in a 4 bed room is between 5400.00 and 7000.00 per month, but ther're getting skilled care...:mad: don't think so. I have a nurse friend that was fired after 20 years of service, new management started changing everything, beginning with a hush hush policy that when doing a new admit to services, if it was critical, the nurses were to drag the're feet,as the person would'nt be on services long enough, no money would be made. I just found out about this, and knew it was true, a few years ago, when I phoned for Hospice for one of my people, I would see admit orders that day, and care would begin... for some time now it can take a week or more. When a person is suffering and or actively dying...they need comfort meds, and special care, anyone that has cared for the dying knows exactly what I'm talking about...Luckly, for these folks their doctors cared, and hospice care could begin while I waited the week or so for the organization, and many times, the hospice agency was'nt needed, the person already passed.

[appeace]

I wonder when the medical profession, insurance industry, credit card industry, utility industry, ect., are going to wake up and realize that there are not enough rich folks in this country--or world--for that matter, to support all the drs., hospitals, etc? When they kill all us "undesirables" off, or cause us to go bankrupt, who then is going to pay their salary?
The rich will, eventually, pick and choose which dr or industry is kept and which are "undesirable" and a whole lot of them are going to be made to face the same fate they delt us!:mad:

[hcla]

damn good point aapeace.

[Littledevil]

I know exactly how you feel. My mom is a nurse and i hear it all. Just recently, I had come home from a trip and had a UTI.:(. Of course I went to my OB and told them my symtoms and said I hadn't had one in 4yrs. They did the in house dip stick test, Yes confirmed it is a UTI, but would send it out to be cultured. I asked a bunch of questions, one of which was, could the UTI be cause by the vaginal area and or fluid? I was told No, they are unrelated. The Dr. brushed it off as if I didn't know what I was talking about.

I thought to myself, yeah right. He gave me a script for an antibiotic for 5 days with 1 refill. I finished the cycle and then 3 days later my symtoms came back. I filled the script again and went back to the Dr. and told them that my UTI had come back. I also told them that the last time I had had one, it took 10 days of treatment to kill it. Again the Shrugged it off and said they would send it out to be cultured and didn't give me a longer dose. Got a call 3 days later saying I was negative. 3 days after I completed the refilled cycle I got symtoms back again. Went to the Dr. yet again and told them that this was the third time I was in for the same problem. I told them that I needed to be either on this antibiotic longer or I was resitant to the drug and should be on something else. They shrugged me off again and sent it to be cultured and gave me the same antibiotic for the same amount of time again. I called a couple days later and told them that 5days wasn't going to be long enough. After some pursuasion, I was able to get a script for two extra days but that was it. If my symtoms came back again, my Dr. said they wouldn't treat me anymore and that I have to see a Urologist that there must be something else wrong. Even with my protest. I flat out told them, I didn't need to go to a Urologist that the problem was I wasn't on it long enough or I needed a different antibiotic. The words Bladder Cancer were brought up in this conversation as a possible cause. (I am 29yrs old, spare me the scare tactic). I went a week without symtoms and thought I was in the clear, until wait for it, symtoms came back. I had had it at this point. I went to a Urologist my mother has suggested. Told this Dr. the whole ordeal I had been through for the last month. Sent me for a Urogram just to be safe and make sure they were no kidney stones, etc. He rolled his eyes when I mentioned I was told bladder cancer. He put me on a different Antibiotic all together and sent for a culture.

At my follow up visit with the new Dr., He told me I had a UTI that was not common. That the type of bacteria is found on the skin and fluid of the vaginal area. (remember what I said earlier to my OB). I also gave him the reports my OB had given me from their tests. The Urologist told me that the lab didn't actually do a culture and the OB based the script on what kills common UTIs. The Urologist even gave me a script for extra antibiotic just in case it came back for three more cycles. This Dr. actually listened.

I am getting a new OB because of this Ordeal, which could have been solved had they actually done there job in the first place. And I wouldn't have had to spend over $300 for all of this.

My advice, ask lots of questions, research, and challenge the Dr if you have any doubts.

Sorry for the long details, but you needed to have the whole story.

[bryant.wanda]

The doctor didn't like you telling him or her what's up. They feel that they had the brains and will power and sometimes money to do something that they think no others can do. That's to become a doctor. Some just can't admit when they are wrong or just don't know something.

Wanda:D

[Sam]

HCLA I admire the fact that you are one of those who do stand up. The problem is that if we do it individually they just replace us and nothing changes. It would have to be a united front by a group such as the NLN. I have ran up against all those problems you described.
Little Devil that is the common rip off we are facing in this area too. Especially during cold and flu season. It cost me $928.00 for doctor visits and $157.00 for the prescriptions to get rid of it. It was a cold that turned into a lung infection because I have a weak immune system. I've been through it a hundred times with the same doctors.
How many times have you had a doctor's appt. made for you by his staff between 8 and 9 am?? Those appointments are made by them when they know full well the earliest a doctor will be in that office is 9 am. Go to an emergency room and the first thing they tell you is that you should have went to your primary physician. Yet when you called your primary physician they told you that the earliest appt. they can give you is 8 weeks and if it can't wait that long to go to the ER. They won't let you be a minute late for your appt. even though it's you paying them but yet they will keep you waiting on them for hours with no explanation.:mad:

[bryant.wanda]

I show up ten to fifteen minutes before my appointments. I give them 30 minutes and if I'm not seen then I tell them that I need to reschedule. If it happens to many times, then I ask to speak to the manager.

Wanda

[Littledevil]

When I called originally they had told me the earliest they could get me in was in two weeks. I told them No, they were to get me in that day. That they can't be that busy, not to squeeze me in between appointments for me to pee in a flippen cup. They saw me that day.

[hcla]

cocoknight, nice compliment, and yes I agree with you, if all would stand up, then change could take place, then again mabe just the lot of us would be unemployed and black listed, never to work again, then who would we help. For these reasons an many more is why I choose to be a Fostercare Provider, and I may not have the degrees backing me, but I have a voice, and when one of my people need, its just a matter of careful wording, advocate like a lawyer, and always remember a person attracts more bees with honey then vineager, its like a game, play it well and my people get heard...even when they can't speak. I make a paper trail if nessasary, if a Dr. does'nt address an issue, I put it in writing, this way they can never say they did'nt know... they have to respond.

[hcla]

and I should add that when dealing with those that seem to suffer from GOD SYNDROME, or any male with the whole ALFA thing going on, I suggest keeping a 50lb bag of EGO Cruthies on hand and dole them out PRN...(AS NEEDED) :D

[appeace]

Yup, been there too. Most drs think they are god and they know everything. Ever tell one youve researched your symptoms on the internet and you are concerned about something?? They look at you and talk to you as if you were a moron! Even if, as in my case, you have many medical professionals in your immediate family and do have SOME slight knowledge, the drs dare you to ask any questions about your case:mad:
I dont put up with the attitude. Im not rude to them but I just never go back to them and I try another until I find someone who treats their patients with respect and doesnt mind taking just a moment to listen and explain the facts. I realize that the ins companies dissuade drs from spending any time with their patients, but I feel that is why many errors in diagnosis and treatment are made.
I had a dr once who had the audacity to post a notice that anyone coming in late to an appointment for any reason would be charged 20.00! After receiving the second 20.00 billing from ME after I waited over an hour for MY appointment, he changed his policy and simply began rescheduling late-comers:rolleyes:
(sometimes I just get too sassy for my britches!!;))

[Littledevil]

Good for you appeace! Yes we all should start charging our drs. for our time that they waste! :D

[Sam]

;) You all are so right!! They make you get ugly with them. You have to before they will listen. Doctors are so lousy here they won't even put a diagnosis on your chart unless they put the word possible in front of it. You can drop dead waiting for surgery if you don't have at least half of the money with you before the surgical date. You pay extremely high insurance premiums only to find that the insurance company has some loophole that allows them to not pay off. If you have an outstanding bill that hasn't been paid off the hospital here tells you that you have to go to a hospital that's over an hour away for treatment. (One that is not owned by them.):mad:
Little Devil there are so many diagnostic tests that are available out there that are not very expensive. The doctors won't tell you about them or even give you the option. All they had to do was was simple culture and sensitivity test (C&S). It identifies the type of infection and what antibiotics will destroy it.
You would be even more shocked to find out how many people die of heart attacks in ER's every year while the doctors are writing them prescriptions for indigestion. There is absolutely no reason for it. There is a simple blood test to detect heart attacks. If you are within 24 hours of having one or within 24 hours after you have had one your body produces an enzyme that is detectable by that blood test. Shocking again is the number of accident victims that don't even have an MRI to detect internal injuries because the ER doctor didn't order them. :rolleyes:
We desparately need a health care overhaul.

[appeace]

I totally agree. I hate politics but I really fear what is going to happen here if Ms Clinton gets elected. She has made such a mess of the health care industry. My grandaddy always said "if you want to know why something is the way it is----follow the money"!
People are now viewed as expendable when it comes to the almighty $$$$$:mad:

Duncan would, I fear, be absolutely correct in his "dark mood" in viewing what our world has become.:(

[hcla]

WELL SAID :)

[Sam]

:D Maybe that's one reason I enjoyed that movie. I totally got where he was coming from because of this and the general state of the world. Seems like one huge tragedy after another and it all could easily leave a person jaded to it. :(